Note — This series has been enhanced and republished HERE: http://www.searchformygrandparents.com.

So, a bit more on the whole “killed in a fire in the 1930s” story.

After a bit of a lag when I started this series, my Mom caught up with it. She called me and was somewhat embarrassed by the fact that despite the years of being married to my Dad, she also knew nothing about his family except that they had died when he was young. This was good news, because in undertaking this research, Bro Joe and I were a bit concerned about the whole uncovering family skeletons thing.

The only thing she did say was, “But where did you get this whole fire thing?”

Now, this really threw me.

So I checked with my sister June and asked if she knew how Frank and Elizabeth had died. She said, “In a fire in the 1930s.” OK, check.

I asked genealogical savant Bro Joe, and he said he also wondered where I had gotten the whole fire thing, but figured I had it on good authority, so he didn’t say anything. This then triggered the following set of Facebook messages.

John: Good chat with Sal. She liked chapters 3, 4, and 5. She said something funny which was she had never heard the story about Dad’s parents dying in a fire. Anyone know where we got that idea?

June: I thought we got it from her 🙄

John: Haha. That’s what I thought!

Joe: I never heard the fire story before I read it in your story.

John: Joe — really? June — you heard the fire story, right? I wonder if it came up when you were doing the family research for your Masters degree.

June: That’s what I thought and I think that was my belief long before I did that genogram for my masters. Maybe it was only for the ears of the two oldest.

Jeanne: Never heard about the fire, either.

John: You guys couldn’t handle the truth. Only the old kids.

Jeanne: Did you and June do any recreational drugs in the 70's? Just wondering.

John: Might be an acid flashback. Or maybe a flash forward.

June: I was very into acid. Oh wait, I thought you said food, not acid. Bill says he thinks he remembers hearing about the fire from Sal.

Jeanne: Did you or John do any recreational food in the 70s? Nevermind. I know the answer.

John: Ring dings and Ho Hos. If you didn’t think they died in a fire, didn’t any of you ever think to ask? Or did June and I just tell you to shut up? So did the rest of you guys just think our grandparents didn’t exist, or..?

Jeanne: I asked about dad’s family but was never really given a direct answer about anything.

Jennifer: Never heard the fire story.

Jeff: I didn’t even know dad had a brother until he passed away.

John: Only those who know the fire story are in the will. Sorry.

So. While everyone seemed to think they died in the 1930s, there seems to be a bit of question about the whole fire thing.

It probably doesn’t matter anyway, because it turns out it isn’t true. Here’s how we found out.

A lot of people other than records management and genealogical types don’t realize that Census data is sealed for 72 years.

“The U.S. government will not release personally identifiable information about an individual to any other individual or agency until 72 years after it was collected for the decennial census. This “72-Year Rule” (92 Stat. 915; Public Law 95–416; October 5, 1978) restricts access to decennial census records to all but the individual named on the record or their legal heir. After 72 years, the records are released to the public by the National Archives and Records Administration. In accordance with the 72-Year Rule, the National Archives released the 1930 records in April 2002 and most recently, the 1940 records were released April 2, 2012.”

So after a bit of a lag while companies like Ancestry ingested all of these records, my super sleuth brother Joseph went to work.

The good news (sort of) is that they were apparently alive as of the 1940 Census.

And now the bad news. They were at the Rockland State Hospital (NY).

And… a bit of worse news. The Rockland State Psychiatric Hospital.

Yeah….and the kicker…they’re listed in the Census as “inmates.”

Yeah, that’s not good.

So pushing a bit further. Where was my Dad in the 1940 Census (he was 15, my Uncle Vinnie was 12)? And here they are…

So apparently something went seriously wrong in this family in sometime in the 1930s. And by 1940, my Dad and Uncle were living with his Aunt (sister of my grandmother) and their family — at 58 St. Mark’s Place in Manhattan in the East Village. This is between 1st and 2nd Avenue — between 7th and 9th Streets — on what is essentially 8th Street, on the south side. Not sure why this is called St. Mark’s Place instead of 8th. Here’s what this block looked like in 1927. Pretty sure it’s the tallest building in the middle of the block.

According to Zillow, the building was built in 1900. There is currently a 2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment on the market for $1,017,827. I’m guessing the rent might have been a little different back then. Here’s what the building looks like now.

So… enough dilly-dallying. Four core questions come to mind: 1) What’s the deal with this Rockland place? 2) How and why did they wind up here? 3) What happened to them after this? and 4) What did my Dad know about all of this?

Oh. And of course. I wonder if there’s some sort of 1940s vintage rent control on this building that my New York daughter Erin and her fiance Spencer can get in on?

Other chapters in the series:

The Search for my Grandparents — Chapter 1 — The Starting Line

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 2 — Meet the Brady Bunch!

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 3 — Happy St. Patrick’s Day, Sarah McEvoy!

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 4 — Why Sarah “Had to Leave” Ireland

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 5 — Where We Reconnect with Frank and Elizabeth

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 6 — The Story of Ne’er-do-well Grandfather Number One

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 7 — The post where the 1940 Census is released and we unexpectedly run into Frank and Elizabeth again

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 8 — The post where we find out really creepy things about the Rockland Psychiatric Hospital and expect to meet Nurse Ratched

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 9 — Ancestry and our WTF Moment

The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 10 — And the Death Certificates Arrive

And not technically in this series, but related — The Pushmi-Pullyu Impact of Technology Innovation on Information Preservation

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The Search for My Grandparents — Chapter 7 — The post where the 1940 Census is released and we unexpectedly run into Frank and Elizabeth again